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Post by Jerry & Di on Nov 30, 2011 22:16:44 GMT
Just a thought, is your car a VVC?
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g4wam
Junior Member
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Post by g4wam on Dec 1, 2011 17:49:29 GMT
John, just picked up on one of your points about coolant colour , you mentioned Blue. The f has green originally ( none OAT) later replaced by orange (OAT) . The blue variety is a differnet type of coolant , perhaps not important . regards Mike
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Post by jonty1951 on Dec 1, 2011 21:14:34 GMT
Hi Jerry, yes it is VVC. With regards to the anti freeze, it was originally orange, but was refilled with blue after the head gasket was replaced. I queried the colour with the garage , and they told me it was OAT type. Since blowing through the jiggle valve, there's been no more signs of overheating, although I'm still not happy with the heater. It dosn't actually go cold on tickover, more lukewarm. When on the move though, it's VERY hot! (The anti freeze has now returned to it's bluish colour, I think some sediment was stirred was stirred up in the system).
John
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Post by Jerry & Di on Dec 2, 2011 9:25:06 GMT
Hi Jerry, yes it is VVC. John Aha. I think I may know the answer, although I don't really know why, just a hunch. In the meantime, I would flush out everything in the cooling system, including that trapped in the block with a hose pipe under pressure and replace it all with OAT and bleed properly. I fitted a TF160 oil/water intercooler some time ago and found the heater plumbing very curious. Most fluids prefer preferential flow and I think your car suffers from this. The heater supply seems to be fed from the smaller "T" at the cylinder head outlet and returned to the little four way plastic item before going back to the water pump. I had problems as well, but used two "Y" pieces stitched into the two big 32mm pipes as they went down past the heater to the underfloor pipes to connect to the heater. The four way adapter was dumped. As my thermostat is under the washer bottle, my bypass circuit is large and fast moving all the time. The heater feed and return are tapped into this circuit using the "Y" pieces as swept bends, so the heater is always connected to the hottest part of the cooling system. If the heater is turned off, it makes no difference as the coolant just carries on round the 32mm "ring main" of the bypass circuit. The smaller 90* leg of the piece coming out of the cylinder head is conected to the jiggle valve, then directly back onto the metal pipe of the "OLD" bypass circuit back to the water pump. As it passes back via the intercooler, it doesn't matter what happens to this circuit as my 32mm bypass is busy doing what it should. Everything would fine even if this separate circuit blocked up - no harm done. My heater now works at bypass temperature all the time, even at idle. I think with the OEM arrangement, there is not enough flow/pressure to push fluid at 90* at the cylinder head outlet through smaller bore pipes to the heater and back through the restrictive four way adapter to the water pump. When the revs/flow/pressure buils up, there is sufficient flow to warm the heater circuit. Just my theory, born out by observation of the heat of the various pipes, experience of flow characteristics in pipework, and what happened when I actually did it I've got all the stuff (silicone hoses) to make a neater job in the spring when it's warmer, but it's been fine for two years now with no problems at all, even in deepest winter.
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Post by jonty1951 on Dec 3, 2011 13:40:56 GMT
Thanks for all that Jerry ! If, as you suggest it's an OEM thing, I'm fairly happy to live with it. I was just concerned that there might be a fault somewhere. I might get round to flushing it all through come the warmer weather ! So the thing is now, do other TF160 owners have this heater "problem"? John
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Post by SWMG Admin on Dec 3, 2011 13:50:45 GMT
My 160 heater seems ok, when heater is full on and no blower speed selected at all it's only warm coming out, as soon as i switch to poss 1,2 or 3 it gets hotter which seems right to me
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Post by jonty1951 on Jan 29, 2012 17:13:10 GMT
Had a run out this morning, and after about 8-10 mile noticed the temperature gauge creep up just over half way. It first did this about 2 month ago (hence this post!) It doesn't stay there, but drops down more or less straight away to normal. I know you should'nt really do it, but I released the expansion bottle cap with the engine hot and running, which resulted in the coolant suddenly rising up and overflowing. Should this happen? Could it be a faulty thermostat perhaps ?
John
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Post by Jerry & Di on Jan 29, 2012 18:39:45 GMT
Had a run out this morning, and after about 8-10 mile noticed the temperature gauge creep up just over half way. It first did this about 2 month ago (hence this post!) It doesn't stay there, but drops down more or less straight away to normal. I know you should'nt really do it, but I released the expansion bottle cap with the engine hot and running, which resulted in the coolant suddenly rising up and overflowing. Should this happen? Could it be a faulty thermostat perhaps ? John That's the worst thing you could do If the coolant is at 100*C or above, releasing the cap will make the coolant boil anywhere throughout the system. This will introduce steam/air pockets which will mean bleeding at all three points. Is the thermostat faulty - difficult to tell except by removing and testing
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Post by Mike H on Jan 30, 2012 9:08:11 GMT
If it were me, the first thing I'd do is replace the expansion bottle cap, because they do seem to have a finite life, and then I'd be thinking that the symptoms you describe, assuming there is no loss of coolant, might be pointing towards air in the system. As the air (steam) pockets hit the sensor, the indicated temperature rises and then drops when coolant flow returns.
As you're almost cetainly going to have to bleed the system now, a new cap and the correct bleeding procedure might fix this for you. However, if there is/was air in the system it's worth investigating further to establish the reason.
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g4wam
Junior Member
Posts: 45
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Post by g4wam on Jan 30, 2012 13:36:53 GMT
Hi there, another possibility is that the water temp gauge ( cabin display) sensor connector , underneath the water temp sensor (cooling) in the engine bay, has a dirty connector . Good idea to check both . I do agree that you will need to bleed now. If your heater is working ok then may be just a simple bleed. regards Mike
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Post by jonty1951 on Jan 30, 2012 18:48:54 GMT
Hi there fellow Stokie ! I cant help thinking that as you suggest, it's an electrical problem. The car runs faultlessly, oil's OK, coolant's OK and the heater works as well as can be expected ! Can you please tell me what these sensors look like and where they are situated on the engine ? Thanks John
PS When I say it's running faultlessly, I'm sure I can here it "pinking", which I thought was a thing of the distant past ! Shouldn't the ECU prevent this sort of thing occuring ? I'm using Texaco Unleaded.
Any thoughts folks ? John
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g4wam
Junior Member
Posts: 45
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Post by g4wam on Feb 3, 2012 17:04:54 GMT
hi there, sorry for the delay -there is a really good picture on BROONIES(I think) web site . I will try to send you the link as soon as
Dont know about pinking -but you can have a sort of tappet knock if the hydraulic tappet system has dried out. This usually occurs when the engine oil thickens if the car has been left standing . Mike
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Post by jonty1951 on Mar 26, 2012 11:51:03 GMT
Water temp gauge now sits on the half way mark most of the time, and occasionally drops to "normal". When pushing on a bit, it rose to the 3/4 mark, and both fans were running when I pulled over. Together with the " pinking" I'm still experiencing, I've got a feeling something going to go wrong shortly! I've tried bleeding it a couple of times, but there is never any signs of air present. The coolant level never alters and the oil is clean. I thought about replacing the temp gauge sender unit, but when I saw where on the engine it was positioned, I decided not to bother ! Oh, I casually asked at a local dealership what he thought my TF 160 was worth - £1100 !!! So if it's starting to look the dreaded HGF, I'll have consider seriously whether the car's really worth spending on !
Any thought's guys ?
John
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Post by jonty1951 on Mar 27, 2012 16:19:39 GMT
Just driven home from work in a state of deep depression ! Sitting in traffic sweltering, and I could'nt be bothered to drop the top down ! Then SHMBO says if you love the car that much ( which I do !), get it sorted regardless of cost, as it's going to be a lot cheaper than buying a new one ( dont you just love a woman's logic !). She's right though, it's only done 34000 miles, and really looks the dog's ! It would be criminal to PX it for £1100, so I now need to know where to get it sorted. As I'm fairly close to the MGF Centre, can anyone recommend them; also Top Gear Automotive, also in Wolverhampton ( Lotus, MG and TVR specialists). I really cant think that the head gasket is going, it runs as sweet as a nut, with no coolant or oil issues, just that the temperature shows a marked rise when pushing on. Is the TF prone to radiator problems ( I know that the F was).
John
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Post by petevick on Mar 28, 2012 9:32:44 GMT
If its a TF160 then its possible that the water cooled oil cooler may be partially blocked, I've read that the 160 does have this problem occasionally, and its possible that it would produce your symptoms. I know Dave recommends the MGF Centre.
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